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  • Xelrog T. Apocalypse
    Xelrog T. Apocalypse closed this thread because:
    Topic has been resolved.
    20:01, September 15, 2014

    Earlier last night Xelrog and I were talking about this issue back and forth on our talk pages. As I was going to go on the chat rules to see that part of the rules so that I can have a faster route to discuss stuff with a bureaucrat for more benefits on the site and not have to leave a message on a talk page that can be unanswered for hours--since Callie/Phoenix is on most of the times on the chat--I noticed that the section wasn't there anymore.

    After asking, then correcting Xelrog about this removal of the section in the chat rules and talking about it, I feel that it should be removed from the chat rules completely.

    Reasons for it being (and these reasons can be found on my talk page by Xelrog) is that it's not really the chat mod(s)/modding admin(s) job to give out a chat ban on a account because a user lacks self-control to not sign off from the chat and take a break from it if he/she is stressed from it, caught up on school work, or anything that involves time. Their job is to mod the chat if anyone breaks a chat rule, not give out a ban to some user who lacks this control. And another reason for it is that it encourages bad habits in said user if that's a response to a lack of self control.

    I was because I did ban myself for a year because of some chat users in the past were assaulting that I didn't really want to encounter them again for a year, and that I thought that talk pages was the faster route for issues (when messages can be ignored, or the reply is halted because the user has a life). But I do agree with what Xelrog had said on my talk page.

    UPDATE: To avoid confusion, it's to determine to re-add that section on the chat rules. Not to obliterate or change them.

    Support Support -
    {{Support}}
    Neutral Neutral -
    {{Neutral}}
    Oppose Oppose -
    {{Oppose}}
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    • Oppose Oppose - And we are supposed to enforce this rule, how, exactly? By banning the offender?

      If they want to be banned, then ban them. Just don't allow them to request being unbanned.

      The idea of not allowing a user to request a ban is silly. That's their decision, not ours.

      That's really all that's needed to be said. There are things I could go into, but this is really all that has to be said.

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    • Enforce a rule? What are you talking about, Phoenix? (I'ma call you Nick for short)

      Basically what happened is, I revised the chat rules and got rid of the ban request section because I misunderstood what it was for. Fatal explained it to me, and now the topic of whether or not the section should be re-added has come up. There are no rules being proposed at all. Support means that the chat rules page just stays as is, and Oppose means we re-add that section into it.

      I frankly find it silly that we need to devote a section on the rules page to people requesting their own bans, which itself sounds completely asinine. It's not the staff's job to deliver bans on request because people lack self control, and we don't really need a section on that page encouraging such requests.

      THAT SAID, it's not like those bans are being outlawed. If an admin or chat mod gets a self-ban request via PM, they're free to fulfill it if they like. Really, it's just up to their discretion. We don't need a section on the rules page that makes it sound like they're obligated to fulfill these requests, though.

      Also, it makes for a pretty depressing reflection of our userbase if people have so little self-control that they can't just close the chat window for a couple hours.

      Support Support - For keeping the chat rules page as is.

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    • (Support) By the way, fucking talk to me, m8 >8U

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      • Support Support -
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    • Support Support - They aren't really needed for one and two, requests should be for oneself, not for other people. If they want to have a ban requested for themselves then ok, that's their personal choice. But to request it for another user is not ok. What if the user gets banned for something they either didn't do or never happened? It would be unfair.

      As per Xel, lets keep the page as it is.

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    • @Maulle: The section on the rules page was about requesting bans for oneself. Given that you thought they were for requesting other users be banned, and I thought they were for requesting others users be banned, it seems pretty clear that they caused a fair bit of confusion, though.

      Though I think the title of this thread is liable to do the same. I don't think Fatal is actually campaigning for self-bans to be disallowed, are you, Fatal? They just don't need to be on the rule page.

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    • Steam Phoenix wrote: Oppose Oppose - And we are supposed to enforce this rule, how, exactly? By banning the offender?

      If they want to be banned, then ban them. Just don't allow them to request being unbanned.

      The idea of not allowing a user to request a ban is silly. That's their decision, not ours.

      That's really all that's needed to be said. There are things I could go into, but this is really all that has to be said.

      >Banning the user who requests a chat ban on themselves

      No one would be banned from the chat for requesting their own ban, and it wasn't clearly mentioned on this thread. And I find it shocking that you, of all people that I know on this community, puts it in terms that this thread is bad and stupid.

      Like what Xelrog and I had said, it's not the mods job to ban users automatically when they do request a ban. Their job is to monitor the chat for rule-breakers. But it's not really an option to give an automatic no for a chat-ban that a user is requesting.

      I do find it pretty unnecessary if a user needs a ban because they don't have self control to turn off the chat and do their school work. It's their decision to make that ban on their own, but it should be the last thing that an admin/mod should do because they don't have self control. But it's up to the mod's discretion on how they handle it, whether it is a kick or the ban time the user allows.

      Just throwing this out. I don't really care if this gets a topic of its own or not on this thread, it's my peronal opinion. I don't think that they should request to be unbanned, but I think that they should be allowed to request a change on their ban--but only for extreme causes like a year or 6 months to a lower time period like a month or three.

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    • Xelrog T. Apocalypse wrote: @Maulle: The section on the rules page was about requesting bans for oneself. Given that you thought they were for requesting other users be banned, and I thought they were for requesting others users be banned, it seems pretty clear that they caused a fair bit of confusion, though.

      Though I think the title of this thread is liable to do the same. I don't think Fatal is actually campaigning for self-bans to be disallowed, are you, Fatal? They just don't need to be on the rule page.

      Eh... I miscommunicated on that at first--thinking that it was to obliterate the rule (on what you have said on the talk page)--but then I thought a little and said " It's the users choice to request a ban, but not the first thing a mod should care about." I'll add that little update.

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    • Essentially by leaving it off the rules page I think it can just be dealt with by mods on a case-by-case basis.

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    • I must have misunderstood.

      That being said, Neutral Neutral - I don't really care either way.

      Although, in response to "it's not the mod's job to ban on request", how long does it take to ban someone? Around maybe 5 or 10 seconds. That's it. Just going to put that out there.

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    • Mods are free to do it if they choose. They just needn't be obligated, is all.

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      1. Ban users when they request it
      2. Don't unban them no matter how much they plead
      3. Mark in their ban summary that it was a request
      4. Profit ???
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    • Support Support - I agree that users that truly want to stay out of chat should have the self-control to do so and return when they feel ready.

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    • Neutral Neutral -

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    • I think there's been a general consensus. Self-bans will be left to the discretion of each mod/admin, individually, and they can decide whether or not they want to hand them out. Rather than just leaving this off the rules page entirely, I added it to the Mod Rules section so that there's no confusion.

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    • Neutral Neutral -

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